You gotta love when the Sheriff and the Supervising Judge talk about something they obviously know nothing about
Supervisor Spitzer: All right, Department Status Report, Sheriff’s Department. Good morning, Sheriff.
Sheriff Sandra Hutchens: Good morning.
Sheriff:
I know. I know. There are two things today. Coming before the Board on Tuesday is a court grant and it’s coming before the Board, because to submit the grant, it required letters of support from Sheriff, District Attorney, Probation, Public Defender, and Healthcare. And, so I just wanted to make you aware of that. We’re all in support, have submitted letters of support on that. And this came on the heels of a discussion about pre-trial release and we went to a pre-trial conference that Judge Margines arranged for. And, so I want to thank all the partners that got together on a short timeframe. We had a working group to move through this and get it done. But I just wanted to make you aware of it. That it’s coming forward and I think Judge Margines might have some comments as well.
Judge Margines: Good morning. And let me start by introducing Nora Sanchez. Sherry Garofalo, she’s our new Director of Criminal Operations and she’s been leading the charge for us in meetings with various stakeholders on pre-trial services. Just the other day I met our newest Judge, [Inaudible]. You’re shaking your head [inaudible].
Judge Margines:
She has went on to private practice, done a lot of criminal defense. She had not heard of pre-trial services. And I had not heard of it until about a year ago either. So it’s a new concept. It’s something that is an alternative to bail. And, because people don’t understand it, they have concerns. Legitimate ones. So I just want to reassure those of you at the table a couple of things. What we want to do is plan and implement a pre-trial services program in Orange County. We have an opportunity to do it on somebody else’s dime. The state has budgeted money that would be made available to us, up to $600,000, with a larger county. So, hopefully, we can get that kind of money and that’s for 25 months. And it is an evidence-based risk assessment tool. And when I say tool, it is just that it is another arrow in the judge’s quiver as the judge makes the best possible decision of who to release without bail. It does not supplant the judge’s discretion. The ultimate decision is up to the judge, but that tool furnishes the judge with additional information and that is based on validated studies of many thousands of people over, believe it or not, the last 50 years that this program in one form or another, has been in effect and it works. One of the speakers at our conference that was on October 1st, was Brian Back, the presiding judge at Ventura County Superior Court. He was wildly enthusiastic about it. It’s [inaudible] for a little over a year. It’s used in the federal system. You think if it didn’t work, the feds would certainly have the ability to do away with it. There are a number of California counties that have implemented it. Let me just read them off, Marin, Santa Clara, Ventura, Butte, ****, Sonoma, Santa Cruz, San Francisco, [inaudible] others. And the DA is going to be the gatekeeper, because the way we’re structuring the program is the DA will make the initial referral of who would be considered for pre-trial release. And the target population is going to be low-grade felons. It’s going to be people who are charged with non-violent, non-serious felonies as to whom the DA is not seeking a state prison sentence. So we’re really talking about low-grade people who presumably would be a far lesser risk of [inaudible]—
Supervisor Spitzer: So that’s the only way it gets initiated is by a petition from the District Attorney?
Judge Margines: It wouldn’t be a petition. I think it would be something more informal. I don’t think – have we worked out the details—
Supervisor Spitzer: Referral.
Judge Margines: —A referral. Okay. And—
Supervisor Spitzer: Right. But there are the initial screenings based upon their review or their criminal history?
Judge Margines:
Exactly. They’re going to look at who’s in custody, who’s new in custody coming up for the first court appearance. And say, “Okay. We’re not going to seek a state prison sentence on this guy charged with a felony. We’ll refer him. This guy, nah. He’s got [inaudible] priors or whatever. Not eligible.”
Supervisor Spitzer: So no other party can initiate that consideration? So Frank’s deputies can’t come in and ask? It’s all upon the recommendation of the District Attorney?
Judge Margines:
The way it’s going to work, as I understand it, is there was an agreement among all the stakeholders that only the DA will initiate the referral. And the idea is to evaluate those people for release, not bail. But, and this is where it differs from bail with conditions, all right? And the conditions can be, you know, the GPS bracelet, it could be curfew, it could be stay away orders, drug testing, and so on. And then probation will monitor those people. And report back to the court, “This guy’s flunked a test” or “He’s doing great” or whatever. And—
Supervisor Spitzer: So probation gets a piece of that $600,000 too for monitoring?
Judge Margines: The majority of it.
Supervisor Spitzer: Did you say all of it?
Next Speaker: That’s the way it works around here.
Judge Margines: Yeah. And—
Supervisor Spitzer: [Inaudible] most of it, but we need to understand what that definition is.
Judge Margines:
Well, it’s coming from the state court trial budget. And, let’s see. Right. So the grant funds we anticipate will cover training, some sort of tools, software for pre-trial tracking, an assessment tool training, up to two or three probation staffers. And that’s pretty much it. So we would certainly urge the Board to approve and take it to the next step, which would be a submission of a grant [inaudible]—
Supervisor Spitzer: Excuse me, just allow you to apply for the grant, right?
Supervisor Spitzer: Right.
Judge Margines: Exactly. That’s all it is. And if all goes well, then the grant program starts on April 1st of next year.
Supervisor Spitzer: So, Joe, is this news to you? Are you in the loop on this? Not really?
Joe: Slightly. Yeah.
Supervisor Spitzer: Yeah, then you probably shouldn’t comment.
Joe: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Supervisor Spitzer:
For us to make a recommendation would be pretty easy. When we file a case, we file it on a form. This would just be another box on their, you know, eligible for pre-trial services and [inaudible] go through.
Judge Margines:
And, by the way, there are going to be people who don’t qualify, who are not even screened, and they’re eligible for the old-fashioned bail. And, so to answer your question, Supervisor, can the PD initiator? Well, no. But the PD can say, “Oh, judge. By the way, can you set reasonable bail on this guy or lower the bail” or whatever.
Supervisor Spitzer: Right.
Next Speaker: You know, the conference, you know, there was a lot of emphasis on that and a lot of discussion about the conditions versus the bail where you put the money up and there are no conditions.
Judge Margines: Right.
Supervisor Spitzer: Can you talk a little bit about that?
Judge Margines:
Well, the judges of each county, by law, have to vote on a bail schedule and approve it. A base bail schedule that appears at all police stations and the sheriff’s department. And, so when someone is arrested, the sheriff’s department looks at the hot and most serious charge that they feel he committed, and then look to see where that falls on the bail schedule. And let’s say we’re talking rape, which I think is $100,000 these days. Okay. So if the guy has a rich uncle, okay, uncle shows up, posts $100,000, the guy’s out within hours, and that’s it. No conditions. Whereas, with pre-trial services, you have an analysis of what conditions would be appropriate considering everything about the guy. (((Really Judge? “No Conditions”?? – I can think of $100,000 conditions with this scenario you laid out))) – And, if you think there is even a remote chance that your probation department can and will monitor a defendant better than private practice you are crazy. If that was my bond I would have 100,000 reasons to monitor him and do my risk assessment. What kind of accountability does your department have if the defendant absconds? NONE! We do. Accept our standing invitation to meet, you know the one you have been declining for over a year now.
Supervisor Spitzer: Yeah.
Supervisor Spitzer: Yeah. [Inaudible] jury members. I just think—
Supervisor Spitzer: Of course, your Honor.
Supervisor Spitzer:
Well, the other thing I thought was really interesting is it reduces the jail population. And, so where you have a huge percentage of the jail population or pre-trial detainees and you have less room at the jail for sentenced prisoners and for re-alignment people. And, so I thought a big deal about it, a really good outcome is you reduce that population, free up space in the jail for the people who really need to be there.
Supervisor Spitzer:
And what Ventura said was, Ventura, what they’ve been doing in their probation runs, the people that were released on pre-trial did better throughout the criminal justice process. So that was a little surprising, you know, to all of us at the conference. But, good news. Just over 50% of our population is pre-trial. So, you know.
Supervisor Spitzer: What’s absconding in Ventura? What’s the no-show rate?
Supervisor Spitzer: Very low.
Supervisor Spitzer: Yeah.
Supervisor Spitzer: I thought they said, what? Ninety-some percent were—
Supervisor Spitzer: Yes.
Supervisor Spitzer: —Complying. So it was a very low abscond rate.
Supervisor Spitzer:
It has also been tested throughout the country and not just in various counties in California by the National Center for State Courts. And, again, it’s just another tool in the toolkit for the judge. At the end of the day, the judge makes the decision as to whether or not the person gets released pre-trial or on bail. And you can impose conditions of bail if the statute provides for that. But they’re very seldom imposed. For some reason, a sort of knee jerk bail [inaudible] or no bail.
Judge Margines:
And there are two risks just to make clear. There are two risks that are involved in any decision to release pre-trial – the risk of not appearing, which we talked about, and the risk of re-offending. And the risk assessment that’s based on evidence works very well with both.
Sheriff Hutchens: And the bail bonds agencies don’t do a risk assessment, although they’ll tell you otherwise. — Seriously Sheriff??? You don’t think that when we post a $10,000 bond that we don’t do risk assessment? You don’t think we have cosigners on the hook? You actually think we give defendants $10,000 and say be free and please be sure to make it to court? C’mon Sheriff….You are better than that.
Judge Margines: That’s right. When the check clears, the risk goes way down. Actually Your Honor the risk starts when the check clears. The moment someone is released from jail is when we earn our money. That is when the bond actually goes into affect. If you bothered to learn a little about bail you would know that.
Supervisor Spitzer: That’s incredibly cynical, Judge Margines. – Thank you Mr. Supervisor, it is incredibly cynical.